Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Здесь обсуждаем политическую ситуацию в Грузии и вокруг нее
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Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Сообщение irakly » 29 ноя 2010, 12:19

Как известно WikiLeaks начал публикацию секретных материалов о мировой политике.
Открываю тему что-бы обсудить документы, которые касаются Грузии и сиутации вокруг нее.
Среди опубликованных 28 ноября документов уже есть те в которых упоминается Грузия.

RUSSIA AND GEORGIA

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8. (C) A/S Gordon described the challenges and frustrations of the U.S.- Russia relationship, which is based on finding areas where we can work together on our common interest. He noted progress at the July summit meeting on such issues as START talks and transfer of lethal material through Russia to Afghanistan. Galharague described Russia as a state with the trappings of democracy but without any mechanisms for the public to influence government decision-making. "The root of the problem is the regime," he said. Presidential advisor Loras added Russian leaders lacked sufficient, long-range vision for their country and instead, focused on a six-month time horizon and their business interests. Galharague

PARIS 00001254 003 OF 004

described the French strategy as finding a balance between treating Russia as if it is too important or treating it like an enemy. The French observed that some in Russia have concluded their interests are served by keeping the west "tied down in an Afghanistan quagmire" and by sustaining the status quo in Iran. He elaborated that a solution that thwarts Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions and restores Iran as a normal member of the international community could undermine Russian regional and energy interests. Loras noted of late the Russians have been unhelpful on Iran. Moreover, they appear to have concluded they can pocket a projected U.S. decision to scale back or abandon the Bush administration's Missile Defense initiative without paying any cost.

9. (C) Looking ahead on the energy front, Loras predicted that substantial Russian under-investment in energy extraction infrastructure was such that Russia would not be able to meet European demand in four or five years. He observed this created an opportunity for Russia to have even more leverage over a Europe that has not prepared to diversify its energy supplies. In response to a question on Russia's decision to suspend negotiations on World Trade Organization membership in favor of a customs union with Kazakhstan and Belarus, A/S Gordon replied the U.S. would continue a policy review on Missile Defense to take the right decision based on the merits. On Russian actions regarding the WTO, he said that Moscow's decision was likely supported by Russians whose interests were not advanced by opening markets. Galharague observed that failure to advance WTO membership for Russia had negative implications for EU-Russian trade relations as progress in this EU effort pre-supposed progress on Russian accession to the WTO. Loras reported the coming year will involve substantial Franco-Russian interactions. This engagement would include a visit by French Prime Minister Fillon to Russia in September, a visit to France by Putin in November, a state visit to France by Medvedev in March, and a Sarkozy visit to Russia in 2010 on the margins of the St. Petersburg forum. These visits would occur under the auspices of reciprocal "Year of France" events in Russia and "Year of Russia" events in France.

10. (C) Levitte and A/S Gordon discussed the "dangerous" precedent of ships being intercepted in Georgian waters. Sarkozy Advisor Damien Loras noted that President Saakashvili has a French advisor who has informed Paris that Georgian ships have orders to respond if fired upon. This can escalate and the French message has been to emphasize that Georgia must not respond to provocation, as that would only play into Russia's hands. Levitte stressed the importance of maintaining the Geneva process, while noting that it may take a generation before the Russian public will be able to accept their loss of influence, from Poland and the Baltics to Ukraine and Georgia. Unfortunately, the Russian tendency is to view "good neighbors" as totally submissive subordinates. On the other hand, Paris is closely watching Medvedev, who is more frequently taking public stances in opposition to Putin. Medvedev is more open to the occidental powers and more open to modernization and rule of law issues that Russia must face. A/S Gordon observed that President Obama had spent a good deal of time with Medvedev on his trip to Russia, and had specifically targeted Russian youth in his public outreach event. In his meeting with Galharague and others, A/S Gordon noted that the U.S. pursues a policy to support Georgia in the face of Russian pressure without encouraging President Saakashvili to act in ways that are unhelpful.


NATO'S ENLARGEMENT AND STRATEGIC CONCEPT

----------------------------------------

12. (C) Levitte said that France was very pleased with the selection of Madeleine Albright to chair the "Group of 12," which will launch the process of reviewing NATO's Strategic Concept. Bruno Racine will be the French participant on the panel, and Levitte stressed that there is already strong agreement between France and the United States on the basis of exchanges that he has had with NSA General Jim Jones. Levitte noted that Paris agreed with Jones on suppressing the Membership Action Plan (MAP), which had become an obstacle rather than an incentive. A/S Gordon responded that we must not change the process in a way that would be interpreted as suggesting an end to NATO enlargement and eliminating MAP might do that. Levitte agreed and added that French President Sarkozy was "convinced" that Ukraine would one day be a member of NATO, but that there was no point in rushing the process and antagonizing Russia, particularly if the Ukrainian public was largely against membership. The Bucharest summit declaration was very clear that NATO has an open door and Ukraine and Georgia have a vocation in NATO (even if Georgia remains very unstable at the moment). Levitte added that Paris was very pleased with the ceremony on September 9 transferring the Allied Command Transformation (ACT) to French General Stephane Abrial.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-emba ... nts/225319
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Re: Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Сообщение Дробыш » 29 ноя 2010, 12:34

осилил про Россию и Грузию, сенсации или раскрытие чегото такого не увидел.
Вообщем по России викиликс фейл
ИзображениеИзображениеИзображение
сливаю модеров

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Re: Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Сообщение XXI » 29 ноя 2010, 12:39

Дробыш писал(а):осилил про Россию и Грузию, сенсации или раскрытие чегото такого не увидел.

А по Штатам и прочим супостатам увидели?
პატივისცემით, ოცდა მეერთე

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Re: Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Сообщение XXI » 29 ноя 2010, 12:42

Господа и товарищи, усаживаемся поудобней в свои кресла (кто-то может подложить подушечку под шею, пледом укутаться) и получаем удовольствие от просмотра.
Пока же 99 и 9 в периоде нашего населения даже не подозревает, что волна уже около нашего берега.
პატივისცემით, ოცდა მეერთე

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Re: Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Сообщение Дробыш » 29 ноя 2010, 12:46

нет, не читал, не интересно
ИзображениеИзображениеИзображение
сливаю модеров

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Re: Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Сообщение irakly » 29 ноя 2010, 12:51

И без Wiki Leaks в интернете полно информации, которая разоблачает вранье российской пропаганды про войну 2008.
http://irakly.org/faq-po-samim-goryachi ... erspektivi
Надеюсь скоро вы узнаем дополнительные подробности "домашней заготовки" Путина. А так же возможно еше раз убедимся в продажности некоторых западных политиков.
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Re: Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Сообщение PLAT » 29 ноя 2010, 14:38

О России на данный момент опубликовано довольно мало материалов. Однако авторы журнала «Русский репортер» заявили, что имеют на руках часть материалов Wikileaks о нашей стране, которые, в частности, содержат информацию о степени причастности США к военному конфликту в Южной Осетии в августе 2008 года.

«7 августа, до начала активной фазы войны, посол США в Грузии Джон Тефт сообщает в Вашингтон, что грузинские войска, в том числе с орудиями типа «Град», движутся в сторону Осетии, - цитирует полученный компромат «Русский репортер».

Таким образом, подтверждается, что в США прекрасно знали о том, что грузинская сторона выступила в военном конфликте в роли агрессора, но при этом уверяли весь мир в обратном. «После начала войны Тефт пишет в Госдеп, что необходимо подготовить согласованную позицию о том, как отвечать тем, кто не уверен «в абсолютной невиновности Грузии», - пишет «Русский репортер».


http://www.molgvardia.ru/nextday/2010/11/29/21615

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Re: Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Сообщение Vadim » 29 ноя 2010, 15:24

Думаю, что с появление такого мощного инструмента, влияющего на мировую политику, как WikiLeaks, у многих мировых политических сил должны возникнуть два близких по силе соблазна.
С одной стороны очень заманчиво подсунуть Ассанжу поддельные документы, позволяющие, например, расстроить взаимоотношение двух государств. Технически для любой средней руки спецслужбы это не должно представлять проблему.
С другой стороны не менее заманчиво обвинить WikiLeaks в публикации сфабрикованных и не существующих в реальности документов.

Поэтому мне гораздо интереснее будет, когда (и если) WikiLeaks займётся обещанным анализом общеизвестной и общедоступной в Интернете и в бумажных СМИ информации.

Пример анализа можно видеть на данном портале. :)

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Re: Wiki Leaks о Грузии

Сообщение irakly » 29 ноя 2010, 16:29

Wikileaks – War in Georgia: Fight was not Georgia’s original intention

US embassy cables

C O N F I D E N T I A L SECTION 01 OF 02 TBILISI 001337 SIPDIS DEPT FOR EUR/CARC E.O. 12958: DECL: 08/07/2018 TAGS: PGOV, PREL, RU, GG SUBJECT: SITREP 1: FIGHTING IN SOUTH OSSETIA ESCALATES Classified By: AMBASSADOR JOHN F. TEFFT FOR REASONS

3. © Comment: All the evidence available to the country team supports Saakashvili’s statement that this fight was not Georgia’s original intention. Key Georgian officials who would have had responsibility for an attack on South Ossetia have been on leave, and the Georgians only began mobilizing August 7 once the attack was well underway. As late as 2230 last night Georgian MOD and MFA officials were still hopeful that the unilateral cease-fire announced by President Saakashvili would hold. Only when the South Ossetians opened up with artillery on Georgian villages, did the offensive to take Tskhinvali begin. Post has eyes on the ground at the Ministry of Interior command post in Tbilisi and will continue to provide updates. The Embassy held an EAC and will hold another to reasses the situation by COB. We have issued a warden message and are looking at the situation very carefully. If the Georgians are right, and the fighting is mainly over, the real unknown is what the Russian role will be and whether there is potential for the conflict to expand. End comment

Begin Summary: Intense fighting began in South Ossetia the evening of August 6 and continued into the daylight hours August 7. 3. © Comment. The fighting which began well before dusk on August 6 and which continued into the early daylight hours of August 7, is atypical, given that these events usually end by daybreak. From evidence available to us it appears the South Ossetians started today’s fighting. The Georgians are now reacting by calling up more forces and assessing their next move. It is unclear to the Georgians, and to us, what the Russian angle is and whether they are supporting the South Ossetians or actively trying to help control the situation.
Intense fighting broke out west of Tskhinvali at approximiately 1800 in Avnevi and Nuli and continued until 2100, when explosions were noted northeast of Tskhinvali in Dmenisi and Sarabuki. By 0600 August 7, firefighting continued to the southwest in and around Erevneti. At 1600 local time, Deputy FM Grigory Vashadze called the Ambassador to report that a full-scale South Ossetian attack against a Georgian village was underway, resulting in the death of one Georgian peacekeeper and injuries to several others. There were reports of light arms fire, RPGs, and use of heavy artillery fire August 6-7, but the latter cannot be confirmed. Local Georgian authorities assisted by a JPFK escort evacuated approximately 40 children and women from Nuli after daybreak on August 7. Georgian authorities report that the South Ossetians are moving heavy military equipment from a base in J ava, located north of the conflict zone. OSCE observers indicated that Georgian forces along with GRAD artillery are on the move, either as part of a show of force or readiness, or both.

4. © In an August 7 meeting with the FM, the Ambassador urged the Georgians not to overreact to the situation and to restore calm to the region. The FM said that Kokoity blocked the proposed meeting between Yakobashvili and Chochiev and noted that the South Ossetians had instigated the August 6 attack. Ruslan Abashidze, Georgian Ministry for Reintegration, told Poloff that three Georgian peacekeepers had been injured in Wednesday evening’s firefights and had been evacuated to the Gori military medical facility, where President Saakashvili will visit them. When the fighting escalated later on August 7, Deputy FM Vashadze told the Ambassador that one Georgian peacekeeper had been killed and several wounded. Vashadze said that heavy Russian equipment was being moved south from Java – a military base north of the conflict zone , which Georgians have not seen — even in tense times — in the past. According to Abashidze, Ossetians are shelling Georgian villages, and the village of Dmenisi has sustained significant damage.

On August 7 at 1925 Yakobashvili returned from the conflict zone and the Ambassador that the South Ossetians continued to shoot at the Georgian villages despite the announcement of the cease-fire. Yakobashvili said that he waited with General Kulakhmetov, the Head of the Russian peacekeepers in Tskhinvali for some time for the South Ossetians to show up. Kulakhmetov tried to call Chochiev, and other South Ossetians to get them together with Yakobashvili, but they did not respond. Kulakhmetov said, he “does not control anything” and that the South Ossetians were “shooting at the Georgians behind my back.” Yakobashvili said that the Russians originally agreed to host a bilateral meeting with the Ossetians and the Georgians outside the JCC. Popov came to Georgia for this purpose and announced publicly it was his intention to do so. Then, the Russians flipped and said the meeting should be under the JCC. Yakobashvili said it was the JCC system that had caused the mess and it was time for real face to face talks

All the evidence available to the country team supports Saakashvili’s statement that this fight was not Georgia’s original intention. Key Georgian officials who would have had responsibility for an attack on South Ossetia have been on leave, and the Georgians only began mobilizing August 7 once the attack was well underway. As late as 2230 last night Georgian MOD and MFA officials were still hopeful that the unilateral cease-fire announced by President Saakashvili would hold. Only when the South Ossetians opened up with artillery on Georgian villages, did the offensive to take Tskhinvali begin. Post has eyes on the ground at the Ministry of Interior command post in Tbilisi and will continue to provide updates.

On August 7, at 22:30 local time, they attacked the village of Prisi, which was followed one hour later by an attack on the village of Tamarasheni. Civilians and peacekeepers came under massive shelling. The attacks resulted in several dead and wounded. According to available data, hundred of armed personnel and heavy military equipment have crossed from Russia to Georgia through the Roki tunnel. To protect peaceful civilian populations and to prevent further military attacks, the Government of Georgia has been forced to take adequate measures. Despite this most recent escalation, the Government of Georgia once again reiterates its readiness to immediately begin peace talks aimed at resolving the conflict in South Ossetia and calls on the separatist rebels to cease their military actions and come to the negotiation table.

Georgia’s answer for Russian Aggression

OSCE observers on the ground in Tskhinvali told Poloff that Georgia’s attack on Tskhinvali began at 2335 on August 7 despite the cease-fire declared at 1900. The shelling intensified at 2345, with the Georgians possibly using large caliber mortars and GRAD artillery, with impacts every 15-20 seconds, and the South Ossetians returning fire. By observers’ calculations, by 0035 there were at least 100 hits on the city of Tskhinvali, some of them damaging the OSCE f ie ld office there. Currently, the OSCE has electricity, but part of the building has sustained damage and the internet is down. There was a lull in the activity between 0145 and 0415, when the situation began to re-intensify, and by 0615 loud explosions could be heard. The number of casualties are unknown as emergency services are unable to move freely on the ground due to firing. Most local residents are confined to cellars and basements waiting for calm to return. 8. © At approximately 0400 on August 8, the Georgian National Security Council asked the U.S. for the return of 1,000 of its troops from Iraq, 500 within the next 24 hours, and the remainder within 48 hours. A regularly scheduled rotator flight may return up to 250 troops to Georgia by this afternoon. (Note: USG agreement with the GOG provides for emergency return of 1,000 troops within 96 hours. End note.) Later, Saakashvili announced a general mobilization of all reserves. In a second address, he called Russia’s actions “open aggression” and called on the international community to help repel it. 9. © Conversely, the Russians have said they believe Georgian forces are targeting Russian peacekeepers. They have told the Georgians that in view of these attacks Georgia bears responsibility for anything that might follow. The Georgians have replied that they are avoiding any conflict with the peacekeepers as well as civilians. The Georgians believe the South Ossetians are targeting the Russians to provoke a bigger Georgian-Russian conflict. 10. © The South Ossetians are reportedly now accusing the Russians of betraying them. One plausible explanation for all this is that de facto leader Kokoity decided to roll the dice and stimulate a conflict with the Georgians in hopes of bringing in the Russians and thereby saving himself or enhancing his position. Reports that Kokoity has left Tskhinvali remain unconfirmed. TEFFT


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